Welsh Labour leader Eluned Morgan repeatedly snubbed calls for an inquiry into the grooming gang scandal in a fiery clash in Wales’ parliament this afternoon.
First Minister Morgan told the Leader of the Welsh Conservatives Darren Millar three times she was ‘disappointed’ at his question on whether she would back an inquiry into grooming gangs in Wales.
During the clash, Millar highlighted the case of a young girl from South Wales who told GB News how she was trafficked to England and raped over 1,000 times, among other horrific abuse.
But the speaker- who was elected for Plaid Cymru but adopts political neutrality for the role - interrupted him repeatedly, saying he was at risk of ‘inciting discrimination’ with ‘overly descriptive’ language.
Elin Jones, the Speaker, told Millar he was verging on disrespecting the victim by repeating the details of her abuse which she originally told GB News.
She told Millar he had 'done really well with his first two questions' in avoiding inciting discrimination but needed to tone his rhetoric down.
Exasperated, Millar said he was just stating facts that the victim had told GB News, but he was shut down by Jones who responded: "No, no, no you're not. No you're not."
Millar, arguing people in Wales ‘deserved to know if there is another Rochdale or Rotherham on our doorsteps’, was told by Morgan her government supported the previous inquiry into the scandal and had implemented some of its recommendations.
Morgan also said Labour was ‘developing a ten year strategy for preventing and responding to child sexual abuse’.
The fiery debate in full
Millar began by asking “First Minister, do you agree with the growing chorus of voices, including the Labour MP for Rochdale, the Labour MP for Rotherham and the Labour Mayor of Greater Manchester, that we need a new UK wide inquiry into child sexual exploitation by grooming gangs?
To which the Labour Leader replied: “First of all, I think it is important when we're discussing sensitive issues like this that we think first of the victims and many have endured dreadful abuse.
“And I think it's really important that we stand with them and by them when we seek justice.
“Look, I think it's really disappointing that this issue is being politicized to a point where people working for humanitarian organisations and children in school feel threatened.
“And I really hope we can tone down the rhetoric on this issue.”
Millar said: “With respect, First Minister, you didn't answer my question, which was do you support the calls which have been made by many people, including those victims, that we do need to listen carefully to?
“Do you support the calls for a new UK wide inquiry into grooming gangs and child exploitation as well? We know that people up and down Wales are talking about this issue.
“They need assurances that both the Welsh and the UK governments, along with the police and social services, are doing all that they can to prevent young girls in Wales from becoming victims of grooming gangs.
“They want to know that justice will be served against the perpetrators of these crimes, but they can only have those assurances if we know the full extent of the problems that we have here in Wales and the actions which are being taken by everybody to address them.
“So can I ask you, in addition to that first question, which you didn't answer, what communications has the Welsh Government had with the police, with Welsh local authority service departments, social care departments and with other stakeholders regarding grooming gangs operating here in Wales and the estimated number of Welsh victims.
“And will you publish the correspondence between the Welsh Government and those organisations in order to prevent any allegations that might be made of a cover up?
Morgan then said: “I can see what's happening. I'm disappointed, but I will answer your question.
“The Welsh Government fully supported the previous independent inquiry into child sexual abuse, and we are on the back of that, developing a ten year strategy for preventing and responding to child sexual abuse.
“The author of that report made it very clear that her interest was in making sure that the recommendations of that report were actioned, and I can assure you that several of those recommendations have already been implemented here in Wales.”
Millar replied: “I ask you two specific questions. You haven't now answered.
“The second question, which was about what correspondence has taken place between the Welsh Government, Welsh Police forces, Welsh local authorities and other stakeholders about the extent of these issues because people need those assurances.
“Now, it's very clear to me that you're not able to provide those assurances today. And that, I'm afraid, is a national scandal. We know from media reports.
“We know from media reports that young girls have been recruited by grooming gangs here in South Wales before being gang raped and then trafficked to Telford, Hereford and Blackpool.
“One victim has even said that she was strangled. She was threatened with a knife and her home was threatened with being burnt down.
“She was then raped, I'm afraid to say First Minister, a thousand times. She didn't know the number of perpetrators because there were so many.”
At this point the Speaker interrupted, stating: “Come to your question now. You are being overly descriptive and I think verging on not being totally respectful of the victim at this point.
“So can you tone down the rhetoric slightly?”
Millar replied: “I'm afraid I'm simply reading facts.
To which the Speaker said: “No, no, no you're not. No you're not.
“The use of language in this place needs to make sure that you are keeping well away from inflaming any kind of discrimination or inciting of any kind of discrimination.
“You were doing very well, Darren Miller, with your first two questions in avoiding that.
“In your third one, you've become overly descriptive. And I need you to now reflect on that and just ask the question again, please. Now, carry on with your question.”
Millar continued: “We know that some of the things which have been described by victims have been absolutely sickening.
“We know that those things have taken place...”
But the Speaker then interrupted again: “Darren Miller. I ask you for your question. If you do not ask a question in the next 10 seconds, I'm going to ask you to sit down.
“I did not expect to have to do this to you in your first few weeks as leader of the Welsh Conservative Party in here.”
Millar then summed up: “My question is this given that you oppose a UK wide inquiry, given that we haven't had the assurances which I've sought from you today and given the extent of public concern, will you now commission a Wales wide inquiry into child sexual exploitation by grooming gangs here in Wales?”
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To which Morgan said: “Darren, I've got to say I'm really disappointed in you. I wasn't expecting you to take on that kind of approach.
“This is something, I think, where we've got to remember the victims and remember them in a way that will be supportive.
“And I don't think what we've seen in the past few days has been a place where they would feel supported.
“Now, I can make it clear to you that I have asked questions about to what extent this is an issue in Wales of the police.
“I think that what is important is we recognise that actually in Wales we have legislated. There are duties in Wales to report which were introduced back in 2014.
“You may not be aware of this, Darren, but you know, this was a part of the Social Services and Wellbeing Act.
“There is a legal duty on agencies including health boards, including police, probation at the local authorities to inform the local authority if they have reasonable cause to suspect that a child or an adult with care and support needs in their area is at risk of abuse, neglect or harm. That's in our law. It already exists.”
Speaking after the exchange, Welsh Conservative Leader, Darren Millar MS, said: “It’s clear that the Welsh Labour Government does not have a grip of the situation, despite there being clear evidence that child sexual exploitation by gangs has happened here in Wales.
“Only a Wales-wide inquiry will be able to ensure that there is sufficient attention and focus being given to this issue, and that our children can be protected from predatory behaviour.”
Darren Millar MS, added: “People in Wales deserve to know if there is another Rochdale or Rotherham on our doorsteps.”
Welsh Labour has been approached for comment.
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First Minister Morgan told the Leader of the Welsh Conservatives Darren Millar three times she was ‘disappointed’ at his question on whether she would back an inquiry into grooming gangs in Wales.
During the clash, Millar highlighted the case of a young girl from South Wales who told GB News how she was trafficked to England and raped over 1,000 times, among other horrific abuse.
But the speaker- who was elected for Plaid Cymru but adopts political neutrality for the role - interrupted him repeatedly, saying he was at risk of ‘inciting discrimination’ with ‘overly descriptive’ language.
Elin Jones, the Speaker, told Millar he was verging on disrespecting the victim by repeating the details of her abuse which she originally told GB News.
She told Millar he had 'done really well with his first two questions' in avoiding inciting discrimination but needed to tone his rhetoric down.
Exasperated, Millar said he was just stating facts that the victim had told GB News, but he was shut down by Jones who responded: "No, no, no you're not. No you're not."
Charlie Peters talks to a grooming gang survivor from Wales who was raped 1,000 times
Millar, arguing people in Wales ‘deserved to know if there is another Rochdale or Rotherham on our doorsteps’, was told by Morgan her government supported the previous inquiry into the scandal and had implemented some of its recommendations.
Morgan also said Labour was ‘developing a ten year strategy for preventing and responding to child sexual abuse’.
The fiery debate in full
Millar began by asking “First Minister, do you agree with the growing chorus of voices, including the Labour MP for Rochdale, the Labour MP for Rotherham and the Labour Mayor of Greater Manchester, that we need a new UK wide inquiry into child sexual exploitation by grooming gangs?
To which the Labour Leader replied: “First of all, I think it is important when we're discussing sensitive issues like this that we think first of the victims and many have endured dreadful abuse.
“And I think it's really important that we stand with them and by them when we seek justice.
“Look, I think it's really disappointing that this issue is being politicized to a point where people working for humanitarian organisations and children in school feel threatened.
“And I really hope we can tone down the rhetoric on this issue.”
Millar said: “With respect, First Minister, you didn't answer my question, which was do you support the calls which have been made by many people, including those victims, that we do need to listen carefully to?
“Do you support the calls for a new UK wide inquiry into grooming gangs and child exploitation as well? We know that people up and down Wales are talking about this issue.
“They need assurances that both the Welsh and the UK governments, along with the police and social services, are doing all that they can to prevent young girls in Wales from becoming victims of grooming gangs.
“They want to know that justice will be served against the perpetrators of these crimes, but they can only have those assurances if we know the full extent of the problems that we have here in Wales and the actions which are being taken by everybody to address them.
“So can I ask you, in addition to that first question, which you didn't answer, what communications has the Welsh Government had with the police, with Welsh local authority service departments, social care departments and with other stakeholders regarding grooming gangs operating here in Wales and the estimated number of Welsh victims.
“And will you publish the correspondence between the Welsh Government and those organisations in order to prevent any allegations that might be made of a cover up?
Morgan then said: “I can see what's happening. I'm disappointed, but I will answer your question.
“The Welsh Government fully supported the previous independent inquiry into child sexual abuse, and we are on the back of that, developing a ten year strategy for preventing and responding to child sexual abuse.
“The author of that report made it very clear that her interest was in making sure that the recommendations of that report were actioned, and I can assure you that several of those recommendations have already been implemented here in Wales.”
Millar replied: “I ask you two specific questions. You haven't now answered.
“The second question, which was about what correspondence has taken place between the Welsh Government, Welsh Police forces, Welsh local authorities and other stakeholders about the extent of these issues because people need those assurances.
“Now, it's very clear to me that you're not able to provide those assurances today. And that, I'm afraid, is a national scandal. We know from media reports.
“We know from media reports that young girls have been recruited by grooming gangs here in South Wales before being gang raped and then trafficked to Telford, Hereford and Blackpool.
“One victim has even said that she was strangled. She was threatened with a knife and her home was threatened with being burnt down.
“She was then raped, I'm afraid to say First Minister, a thousand times. She didn't know the number of perpetrators because there were so many.”
At this point the Speaker interrupted, stating: “Come to your question now. You are being overly descriptive and I think verging on not being totally respectful of the victim at this point.
“So can you tone down the rhetoric slightly?”
Millar replied: “I'm afraid I'm simply reading facts.
To which the Speaker said: “No, no, no you're not. No you're not.
“The use of language in this place needs to make sure that you are keeping well away from inflaming any kind of discrimination or inciting of any kind of discrimination.
“You were doing very well, Darren Miller, with your first two questions in avoiding that.
“In your third one, you've become overly descriptive. And I need you to now reflect on that and just ask the question again, please. Now, carry on with your question.”
Millar continued: “We know that some of the things which have been described by victims have been absolutely sickening.
“We know that those things have taken place...”
But the Speaker then interrupted again: “Darren Miller. I ask you for your question. If you do not ask a question in the next 10 seconds, I'm going to ask you to sit down.
“I did not expect to have to do this to you in your first few weeks as leader of the Welsh Conservative Party in here.”
Millar then summed up: “My question is this given that you oppose a UK wide inquiry, given that we haven't had the assurances which I've sought from you today and given the extent of public concern, will you now commission a Wales wide inquiry into child sexual exploitation by grooming gangs here in Wales?”
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To which Morgan said: “Darren, I've got to say I'm really disappointed in you. I wasn't expecting you to take on that kind of approach.
“This is something, I think, where we've got to remember the victims and remember them in a way that will be supportive.
“And I don't think what we've seen in the past few days has been a place where they would feel supported.
“Now, I can make it clear to you that I have asked questions about to what extent this is an issue in Wales of the police.
“I think that what is important is we recognise that actually in Wales we have legislated. There are duties in Wales to report which were introduced back in 2014.
“You may not be aware of this, Darren, but you know, this was a part of the Social Services and Wellbeing Act.
“There is a legal duty on agencies including health boards, including police, probation at the local authorities to inform the local authority if they have reasonable cause to suspect that a child or an adult with care and support needs in their area is at risk of abuse, neglect or harm. That's in our law. It already exists.”
Speaking after the exchange, Welsh Conservative Leader, Darren Millar MS, said: “It’s clear that the Welsh Labour Government does not have a grip of the situation, despite there being clear evidence that child sexual exploitation by gangs has happened here in Wales.
“Only a Wales-wide inquiry will be able to ensure that there is sufficient attention and focus being given to this issue, and that our children can be protected from predatory behaviour.”
Darren Millar MS, added: “People in Wales deserve to know if there is another Rochdale or Rotherham on our doorsteps.”
Welsh Labour has been approached for comment.
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